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Let's Beat It Together!

Smash Bros MEGA TOPIC EXTREME

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  • YOGZULAYOGZULA 676 PointsToad Lord Battletoad
    Posts: 3,541
  • YOGZULAYOGZULA 676 PointsToad Lord Battletoad
    Posts: 3,541
    shiek nerfs are finally here

    glory be to sakurai
  • YOGZULAYOGZULA 676 PointsToad Lord Battletoad
    Posts: 3,541
    my man zard got some buffs, gonna be fun trying him out
  • YOGZULAYOGZULA 676 PointsToad Lord Battletoad
    Posts: 3,541
    @jagyooar bowser became 2 units heavier and has faster aerial speed as well
  • YOGZULAYOGZULA 676 PointsToad Lord Battletoad
    Posts: 3,541


    that's also a thing now

    rly don't think any character should have a kill throw combo or even 50/50 at less than 100%. This goes out to my boy DK, his pre-nerf nephew, ZSS and her uair up-b strings (now nerfed), and... am i missing anyone? Apparantly now zelda, too. Not that she didn't need some love, but a d-throw to u-air combo that kills at 65% on light characters and probably 70-80 on heavies was not the way to go imo.
  • YOGZULAYOGZULA 676 PointsToad Lord Battletoad
    Posts: 3,541
  • YOGZULAYOGZULA 676 PointsToad Lord Battletoad
    Posts: 3,541
    samus air speed increase is also looking to be a pretty big deal, considering samus goes for most of her kills in the air. She can also string f-airs together a lot more easily and kill off stage with them
  • YOGZULAYOGZULA 676 PointsToad Lord Battletoad
    Posts: 3,541
  • JAGYOOARJAGYOOAR 468 PointsAdministrator Battletoad
    Posts: 1,932
    Is that for real? I've never seen him reach so ridiculously.
  • YOGZULAYOGZULA 676 PointsToad Lord Battletoad
    Posts: 3,541
    been really going to town with zard tonight, lost very few FG matches. Played a really good greninja who took one over on me, his buffs are pretty noticeable. Funny how much of a difference a few frames make. Played a good shiek as well and her nerfs are also noticeable. I feel like heavies actually have a decent MU with shiek now because she almost never kills early as long as you don't get bouncing fished off stage. I was almost always crawling up to around 150% before dying and I could kill shiek with a zard U-smash when she had 70% if I had rage.

    ganon's jab buff is really noticable. His jab is finally not dog shit. Wish his u-tilt got the same treatment. I accidentally u-tilt with him too much and it's basically like dropping my controller on the ground for my opponent to punch me in the face.

    Most noticable thing about zard is the aerial mobility. The fewer frames of land lag is nice, but i got used to auto canceling them anyway so that actually doesnt stand out a whole lot. His b-air never auto canceled and that shit is 9 frames less so that's a huge deal .
  • YOGZULAYOGZULA 676 PointsToad Lord Battletoad
    Posts: 3,541
    I feel like of the current characters the most underdeveloped with potential to rise (recent patch taken into consideration) are

    samus
    mewtwo
    greninja
    toon link
    yoshi

    just watch a pre-patch mewtwo beat m2k's cloud 6-0. Mewtwo just got some pretty nice buffs this patch, too. I think he's got a lot of potential. My issue in playing him is how small his hitboxes are, but watching good players it seems like they've really learned to adapt with precision.
  • JAGYOOARJAGYOOAR 468 PointsAdministrator Battletoad
    Posts: 1,932
    It is great to hear that several of my most hated characters have been nerfed.
  • YOGZULAYOGZULA 676 PointsToad Lord Battletoad
    Posts: 3,541
    rosalina and luma sadly unchanged though
  • YOGZULAYOGZULA 676 PointsToad Lord Battletoad
    Posts: 3,541
    zero really hates bayo as much as i do it would seem
  • YOGZULAYOGZULA 676 PointsToad Lord Battletoad
    edited March 2016 Posts: 3,541
    this guy rages and does what john always wants to do to me

    go to 5:34 since timestamps don't work for shit

  • YoshibbYoshibb 61 PointsEditor Battletoad
    Posts: 369
    As far as the bayonetta video goes, I agree. All I want to do in Smash is have fun and there's nothing fun about not even being able to attack a character. There's nothing fun about super campiness. I just can never maintain interest in smash because I know I'm never going to be as good as the people who regularly play it or overpowered characters.

    I don't know. Maybe that's just a problem with online play in general though. The fun in multiplayer for me was picking up a controller and screwing around with my friends who were also a bunch of novices. There's no fun in online play. You play against people who are serious and way better than you and you just get angry because you lose and spend too much time overthinking every move instead of enjoying the game.

    The most fun I had with Smash was playing a bunch of people locally who only knew the bare basics of the game and that's it. We all traded wins, used items, and had a blast. But I'm 28 now with two jobs. I can't go over to my friend's house and play games with them like I used to. So as a result, multiplayer games really aren't that fun to me anymore.
  • JAGYOOARJAGYOOAR 468 PointsAdministrator Battletoad
    edited March 2016 Posts: 1,932
    That Bayo player I've never heard of can 0-to-death MVD's Diddy Kong with Witch Time. Better nerf Bowser's up-throw. 8-| She's obviously broken. Hopefully she's properly nerfed before the summer's big tournaments.

    He's right though, she's a really easy character to pick up and just start dominating with because there's much more margin for error and she has no real weaknesses. You should not be able to Witch Time a damn peanut projectile and launch into a combo that is not DI-able.

    I watched his video on the 1.1.4 patch on Bowser (not 1.1.5, he didn't make one for that) and he had some interesting suggestions for how to make Bowser a viable competitive option. One of Bowser's biggest issues is that he struggles to get back down to the stage safely. Most characters are able to keep stage control and knock him around once he's up there because his descent options are predictable and HIGHLY punishable.

    You are aware of this and are always putting pressure on when I'm in the air rather than sitting back and trying to make a read (usually). He suggested allowing side-b's range to extend downward so he has a way to descend on someone who may be ready to shield and punish you. He also suggested improving the flame breath and making it cut through shields easier (which I know you would love).

    1.1.5 made him heavier and faster, so that did help a little with the weakness he has of getting down to the stage safely, but a slight buff to his air speed and weight isn't enough.
  • JAGYOOARJAGYOOAR 468 PointsAdministrator Battletoad
    Posts: 1,932
    YOGZULA said:

    this guy rages and does what john always wants to do to me

    go to 5:34 since timestamps don't work for shit

    That was some sustained rage. Got up and found something else to chuck at the wall too, then ran out and slammed the door. lmao
  • YOGZULAYOGZULA 676 PointsToad Lord Battletoad
    edited March 2016 Posts: 3,541
    I think all heavy characters suffer from being too easy to juggle. Bowser has a few mix up options for landing like down-air and down-b, highly punishable if read, but can still be rewarding if bowser gets the read on a shield camp instead. Granted, I think all heavies should have faster fast falls or better options to land that aren't so punishable. One thing I think all heavies need across the board is slightly faster air speed and slightly less lag on their aerials. Also some more ground speed. Having almost no combo options means heavies need to work a lot harder to find those individual hits, hit after hit.

    I would like it if flame breath put on more shield pressure. I feel like a lot of moves should do more shield pressure, especially stronger moves. Charizards rock smash, for instance, should obliterate shields if every piece of the rock connects. Currently it only does about 50% shield damage and hardly any knockback. It's really dumb. Or, if we want a different solution it might be cool to make heavy attacks have a lot of shield pushback. I think that would be more thematic with their design and add an interesting element to their play.

    Though I've said this before and it's still true. One of the best aerial defensive options is a n-air with a large hitbox and minimal ending lag. There's a reason ike is the best heavy (maybe contested by DK now, but only because of DK's ding dong being ridiculously strong). Ike has a large sweeping nair that comes out fast and has combo potential with little end lag. It's a safe option in so many situations, including getting back down to stage or potentially breaking combos. All heavies need that. Pretty much every top tier character already has that.

    i keep saying heavies but this also applies to a handful of mid to light-weight low tiers
  • YOGZULAYOGZULA 676 PointsToad Lord Battletoad
    Posts: 3,541
    I think people are afraid to suggest substantial buffs, so we get something like "Zards aerials do 1% more damage and if you don't auto cancel an aerial it has less end lag!". People think "oh wow, that's a huge buff" which would be true if it were on a character like shiek, but it's a drop in the bucket on a character like zard.

    let's compare every heavy to Ryu. Ryu, who is the 14th heaviest character in the game. Ryu has a projectile, amazing recovery and easy kill setups. He has aerials that are safe on shield, a handful of true combos and easy to execute death setups. He can land a 3 frame u-tilt and true combo into an up-b to kill at as early as 100% on bowser, much earlier on other characters. His forward tilt comes out in 13 frames and will do 100% shield damage, breaking the shield. He has a 4 frame n-ar (like most other top tiers), a 2 frame jab and Ryu, with all of this, is still not S tier.

    I think heavy attacks should 1. more shield damage, 2. more shield knockback and 3. more shield stun. I also think heavies should have an increased grab range/faster grabs. When on the offensive it's easy to juggle a heavy and rack up a ton of damage. When on defense it's easy to shield camp them and punish their laggy moves. More shield pressure and better grabs on heavies make it harder to defend against them. Faster aerial speed and a faster fast fall makes it so heavies can more reliably get back to the stage.

    You would think heavies are compensated for all of this by weighing a lot and taking longer to die. However, fox has an 8 frame up-smash that will kill bowser at 100%. For comparison, bowser has an 8 frame jab. Bowser's smashes come out in 20+ frames, the only one of which that would kill another bowser at 100% is f-smash. There is something fundamentally wrong with that. Fox is not the only fast character with an extremely powerful, quick, difficult to punish move like foxes u-smash either.
  • JAGYOOARJAGYOOAR 468 PointsAdministrator Battletoad
    Posts: 1,932
    It's kind of become increasingly clear to me that the dev team behind the balance patches are just kind of throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. They're not doing enough to help the lower tier characters, or they're delusional about how balanced the game is and think only teeny tiny minor adjustments are needed.

    I agree with all of your thoughts on heavies. Lighter characters usually dominate heavier characters on everyones' tier lists because obvious advantages to being designed as a "heavy" character are left out of the game.
  • JCTechJCTech 73 PointsMember Battletoad
    Posts: 475
    The kid still has a palutena image
    3264 x 2448 - 1M
  • JCTechJCTech 73 PointsMember Battletoad
    Posts: 475
    It's almost like I was the only reason this was posted in, well ANYWAYYYYYY, 1.1.6 patch ONLY nerfed bayonetta.

    I would tell you all the nerfs, but that's work

    TL;DR: Bayonetta is no longer #1

    BTW JC is back <3

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